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Fillable form's OK with Foxit Reader but NOT with Adobe Reader 9

george3095
Registered: Apr 28 2011
Posts: 5
Answered

Excuse me if this is the incorrect forum. I received a fillable PDF form and, of course, filled it out. I could print it and save it on a Windows 7 machine with it opened by Foxit Reader. The Document's properties were all "allowed." But, to make sure I can create a form using Acrobat X and distribute to computers running (most likely) Acrobat Reader on Windows XP and 7, etc., I took the form to a machine running Ubuntu 10.10 and opened it with Adobe Reader 9. Immediately, Reader notified me the form could NOT be saved and to PRINT a copy. The document's properties were a mixture of allowed and disallowed. My plans are sunk if I can't distribute the form from a Web site. What's my problem?

My Product Information:
Reader 9.4.2, Unix/Linux
George_Johnson
Expert
Registered: Jul 6 2008
Posts: 1875
Accepted Answer
While Foxit Reader allows you to save a filled-in form, Adobe Reader does not, unless the document is Reader-enabled, which can be done with either Acrobat or Adobe's LiveCycle Reader Extensions server-based product.

Note that documents that have been enabled with Acrobat have certain licensing restrictions. In short, you may use data from no more than 500 instances of a form that has been returned to you (including hard copies) if you distribute the document to more than 500 recipients.
george3095
Registered: Apr 28 2011
Posts: 5
George, thanks for your quick response. Of course, I cannot understand why Adobe would set these limitations (the 500 instances), except only because they can. It seems somewhat futile since: (1) free Foxit Reader defeats the limitations and (2) an identical but "new" form that starts over with a new set of 500 also defeats the limitations. I just upgraded Adobe Reader on an XP machine to Version X (10.0.1)and I sort of hoped it would not have the limitations. I was wrong.

Would it be inappropriate or unwelcome if I described the intended use for my new fillable form and asked for your thoughts?
George_Johnson
Expert
Registered: Jul 6 2008
Posts: 1875
No, I wouldn't consider it inappropriate, and I'd be happy to discuss this with you. But note that your point #2 is certainly debatable. I do not believe generating a new document that's used to collect the same data for the same purpose is considered a different document as far as this licensing restriction is concerned, even if you were to use a wildly different layout and design.
george3095
Registered: Apr 28 2011
Posts: 5
OK. Here we are. And, thanks for the offer. This is the scenario: I'm on the board of my homeowners association. We have one form via which the homeowners wishing to take various actions with their homes, e.g. repaint, build a pool cage, remove a tree, plant a tree or large bush, etc., must fill out and submit for approval, rejection, or compromise (we have restrictions out the wazoo). The form currently resides at the property manager's Web site and is a scasnned copy in PDF. The homeowner must download a copy, fill it out, make a copy to keep, and then mail (snail mail) a copy to the property manager who will inspect and make a recommendation to the board. As you can tell, this is fifties stuff. I volunteered to make a modern form, so I bought Acrobat X. I still have Acrobat Version 5 but it did not appear to be up to the task I have in mind. My goal is to create the form, upload it to the Web site, and, if I could swing it, allow the homeowner to fill it out online, then click on a hyperlink to send it to the property manager. That last bit failing, I would allow download, filling out, saving a copy for personal record, then attaching it to an eMail addrersses to the property manager, who, in turn, would distribute to the board by eMail. At the next monthly board meeting, the homeowner's invited to be present while we, the board hear the property manager's recommendation, and then we "delibarate".

George, I think that's pretty much it. I'd be pleased to learn your expert opinion. Did I mention that I'm retired and three quarters of a century old?
wildted
Registered: Nov 6 2009
Posts: 1
Firstly the user license user the word "unique" as in "shall not extract information from more than five hundred (500) unique instances of such Extended Document ..."

I'm not a lawyer but isn't it unusual for lawyers to be as specific as "unique" unless that's what they really mean ("unique" seems to imply that you just need to change a full stop and "such document" would no longer be unique).

Secondly, the big problem with Foxit and all the other readers except Adobe Reader is that they don't support tagging. If you want to support disabled people (such as screen reader users) it seems that you (currently) have no option but to go with Adobe Reader (and Reader Extensions).
George_Johnson
Expert
Registered: Jul 6 2008
Posts: 1875
If you set up the form to submit just the form data, which is possible, there are no licensing restrictions that come into play. The recipient of the data file can import it into a blank form to create a filled-in form, which can then be viewed, printed, and saved. The data file can either be submitted to the web server, which then saves it and/or attaches it to an email, or gets attached to an email that the member initiates.

If this sounds sufficient and you need more help, post again and someone can provide further guidance. Otherwise, it does sound like the form will be sent in more than 500 times, so enabling it to be saved AND sent in would be a violation of the licensing agreement. Note that the form could still be enabled so that the members could saved a filled-in version for their use, but as long as they only sent in the form data and not the complete filled-in document, there is no violation.
george3095
Registered: Apr 28 2011
Posts: 5
George, thanks for that guidance. Here's another obstacle for me: the terminology used in Acrobat Help is unfamiliar to me, creating a sort of fog. I want to move faster than I have to create a form usable in any Reader, no matter the version or the operating system. I'm sure the more I bone up on help the more at ease I'll be. But now, I need "see spot, see spot run" type of instructions. How do I "reader enable" a form? BTRW, I actually began creating the form in Microsoft Word 2010 and it had some great features Acrobat does not, notably the drop down calendar, for which Add-in someone wants $99. Also, Word allowed radio buttons that were linked; only one button could be "pushed." I had hoped I could convert the Word form to an Acrobat fillable form by opening and converting it with Acrobat X, but not so. I realize I'm very likely asking too much, so feel free to let me know if I've become too needy.
George_Johnson
Expert
Registered: Jul 6 2008
Posts: 1875
First of all, do not hesitate to ask any questions you may have. That's the reason this forum exists.

To Reader-enable a document, open the document in Acrobat and select:

File > Save As > Reader Extended PDF > Enable Additional Features
.
Acrobat won't convert form fields created in Word to PDF form fields. You need to make them in Acrobat, perhaps using the Form Wizard to help out.

To create a group of radio buttons, give each radio button in the group the same name but different "Button Value", or whatever they're calling the export value these days. This is set on the Options tab of the Field Properties dialog.

You can also do the same but with check boxes instead of radio buttons. This has the advantage of being able to deselect an item in the group so that none in the group are selected.
george3095
Registered: Apr 28 2011
Posts: 5
George, I very much appreciate your help. I know that, because of my unfamiliarity with a complex application, Acrobat, I can only be a recipient of information and I feel indebted to you who has become an expert. Again, thank you very much.