Acrobat X 3d features?

Acrobat X Pro will continue to support the ability to import a U3D or PRC mesh and read PDF files containing 3D scenes, but Acrobat Pro Extended has been discontinued, therefore Adobe products will no longer offer the ability to import other 3D formats and convert them to U3D or PRC, nor will the Acrobat X Family ship with 3D Reviewer.

Both the translation engine and 3D Reviewer will now be sold separately by Tech Soft 3D and Tetra4D LLC, via their website at http://www.tetra4d.com/ - prices from $199 upgrade, $399 new.

Internally there are no significant changes to talk about, as of course Acrobat X won't need to support any new third-party file formats. Some bugs are fixed, but functionally a 3D annotation in Acrobat or Reader X looks and behaves as it did in 9.

Wow dissapointing. Will Tech Soft 3D or Tetra4D LLC, be updating the 3d Viewer? Personally, I think Acrobat 3D (8) had the best 3D capability (Right Hemisphere). Version 9 had less support for 3D imporantion like ASCII (ASC). I was hopeing at improved flash support in X - an improvment in the bitmap artifact on scaling within a 3D enviroement.

thnx for the input

Gazzzz

What bugs?
Is there any information on changes in 3D viewer?
It'd be nice to provide independent developers with more information on Adobe implememtation of its own open standards.

All queries about the 3D plugins for Acrobat X (and API access to those plugins) should be addressed directly to Tetra4D.

{quote=UVSAR]All queries about the 3D plugins for Acrobat X (and API access to those plugins) should be addressed directly to Tetra4D.[/quote]

Let me remind you more of what you told us at first:

My question "what bugs?" was not about 3D import plugins for Acrobat X, but about rendering of 3D annotations, that had "some bugs" fixed according to your own statement.

Who is responsible for 3D model rendering in Reader X now - Adobe or Tetra4D?

WOW,

I heard that Adobe had 'relieved' their 3D staff of their jobs early this year. I didn't realise that they were 'relieving' us, the users of support.

Luckily we own a licence of Deep Exploration (Right Hemisphere) which enhances the 3D.pdf experience to amazing. Unfortunately the cost of this software is prohibitively expensive.

Hi TIMBIN, MVID and GAZZ,

Let me see if i can help clarify some of these questions.

3D PDF Converter for Acrobat X Pro has been formally released by Tetra 4D. It incorporates previous Acrobat 9 Pro Extended Technology within a specific plugin to support the 3D features and workflows of engineering and CAD.CAE end users. While there has not been a large amount of new features added, there has been many things done at an architectural level to support the end users including;

Updated UI - Excellent feedback from existing and new users already
New Formats - Aggressively updating translator to "catch up" to CAD formats
Enhanced Performance - Improved translation and 3D processing
Bugs Fixed - Many translation issues have been fixed

The release of 3D PDF Converter was focused on ensuring that a stable, robust solution was being deployed to support the 3D users. This meant a dedicated internal test, beta test and trial test. It also meant focusing on the core competencies, which is taking authoritive 3D Data and turning it into an authoritive 3D PDF. Tetra 4D believes that this has been accomplished with the first release. With the second release due Q1 this year, we are focusing on getting the rest of the CAD formats updated, and enhancing the publishing / template capabilities through re-architecture of the API's.

For the initial release we also focused on developing the support systems. With this I mean, growing and educating a support team, developing an end user support system to log and track issue and developing a global partner network. This enables us to be re-act quickly to the end user’s needs, something critical to success in this environment.

With respect to 3D modeling in the Reader X, this is Adobe's statement of work. Both Tetra4D and Techsoft support as a priority.

Finally, while Adobe "relieved" some of their industry specific staff, the 3D specific employees and developers are now part of Techsoft, so you can rest assured that the brain trust is still focused on 3D.

If you have any other questions, including some of the difference between DE and 3D PDF (i have extensive experience in the area of RH) please reach out to me at www.tetra4d.com

Craig@tetra4d

Dear Craig,

And what happens to rendering of 3D models in Acrobat and Reader if Adobe is responsible for it, while the 3D team is now in Techsoft?
Does it mean that it will be frozen as it is?
The bugs and missing features in support of native U3D and PRC formats are the same in X as in 9, AFAIK.

What about support of "open formats" that is now formally in the hands of T4D and TS3D,
while the only implementation that matters, rendering in Acrobat/Reader, is Adobe responsibility?

PRC format description (both in Acrobat 9 SDK and the ISO draft) is incomplete and sometimes plain wrong, public docs on what parts of PRC spec are supported in Acrobat/Reader viewer are absent, for U3D support are poor - but at least there were some.
Free to read online docs and samples of Acrobat 9 SDK provided some insight into PRC format internals, supplementing the docs.
But TS3D is not that open. May be ISV's get their PRC docs with the TS3D toolkits, but public still got nothing but empty words at http://www.tetra4d.com/PRC-ISO-Standard .
What is the position of T4D and TS3D on documenting PRC format?
Is there any hope to see something public before next PDF standard (ISO 32000-2) is released?
(BTW, AIIM committee on PRC has not updated the world on its activities for more than a year!)

> please reach out to me at www.tetra4d.comWhere at www.tetra4d.com?
Do you have a public forum?

Thanks for the comments;

Adobe will continue to drive the features and functionalities of 3D in Acrobat and Reader through both internal and external support. As I stated previously, Tetra 4D and Techsoft 3D will support this effort as required. If you have features or bugs for the reader, then they would need to be documented with Adobe.

With respect to open formats. Acrobat/Reader as you highlighted, supports PRC and U3D. Tetra 4D and Techsoft 3D will support the translation to these 3D PDF Formats. If there is a format, that isn't supported, that you believe should be, then I would gladly appreciate your feedback.

Finally, the PRC format, this has been handed to ISO, as an open standard to document and maintain. Tetra 4D with Adobe, other ISV's and key customers will support AIIM and the ISO process of updating and releasing PRC. This isn’t a quick process, as demonstrated by how long U3D took. Techsoft 3D has Toolkits available that support ISV and companies deploy software that support this spec.

If you have specific questions - please do not hesitate to contact me at craig [dot] trudgeon [at] tetra4d [dot] comCraig

We use 3D.pdf as a construction/architectural communication tool. It is particularly difficult to get 3D information out of the major Architectural modellers.

Revit's most functional (IMO) export format is .dwf. Acrobat Pro. Ex. 9.4.1 & Adobe 3D reviewer 9.4.0.112 cannot successfully import .dwf if a railing is involved, and most architectural models have railings....ArchiCAD has a native U3D output, which unfortunately is unwieldy and often creates 90+MB files, which Acrobat doesn't really like to handle.... The easiest format is .3ds.

If we didn't own Deep Exploration, we would not be using 3D.pdf as the native tools are very clumsy, especially when the 3D modellers (read ArchiCAD) export sloppy 3D code which makes viewing in Acrobat nigh on impossible.....

Hi Tim

The AEC Market and the formats that are used is definetly something that Tetra 4D is trying to gauge. We have had some customers sucessfully use the .IFC format to support 3D Architectual data. Have you tried this. Exporting in IFC and then opening in PDF. Other than the requirement to store it in another format to support PDF, is this an issue.

With respect to DXF, I understand some of the limitations of associated to that format currently with PDF. We are looking to address that, with a few options including openDWG. However, Revit is a file format that appears to be a logical format to add to the current capabilities. Based on your use case, would this format be a valuable addition?? Do you think that it reflects a standard use case used by the AEC Market??

Craig

I Have extensively tried the IFC format. It is a 'Standard' that is interpretted differently by each software vendor. Simple models will often export then import easily into pdf, though there are often unusable interpretations in the resulting model. Complex surfaces are often duplicated or misplaced. Unless stripped out text can be embedded floating in space, there are other numerous issues. This is not overlooking file size which is phenomenal (large I mean).

I did figure a workflow using a 3rd party viewer and 3D capture, which works well though not particularly elegant, as all attached data disappears. I have had to manually input metadata in the past which is painfully slow and questionably accurate.

Good luck building a Revit translator. I suggest you improve your .dwf translator. dwf is based on the HOOPS format, particularly small, and maintains metadata well.

Peace

TIm

Hi Craig,
I'd be interested any information around "features and capability" comparisons around previous Acro versions
I am not so interested in multi-CAD formats, let's face it I only need one that works. However, I am interested in if the features list has grown (and includes) all functions in Acrobat 9 Extended Pro?

Updated UI - Excellent feedback from existing and new users already - no real workflow improvements I think
New Formats - Aggressively updating translator to "catch up" to CAD formats - I only need one format that works
Enhanced Performance - Improved translation and 3D processing - I have not noticed improved 3D processing
Bugs Fixed - Many translation issues have been fixed - OK

and How does it compare to DE - will the "tool roadmap" put it head to head with RH?

Regards
Garry

Craig,

I am wondering about support for the JavaScript API for 3D annotations. Is this currently being supported by Tetra4D, Adobe, or perhaps no one? I am having problems using the addModel call on the Scene object in Acro X whereas this was working in Acrobat 9.x. I would like to know how I can get in contact with those who might know if anything changed in the 3D JavaScript API that might affect this call.

Thanks,
Chris

Everything concerning the JS APIs and 3D rendering in Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Reader version X and earlier remains the responsibility of Adobe, and all customer support tickets and bug reports should be directed to them. Tetra4D are responsible only for the 3D conversion plugin and the 3D Reviewer application as sold from their website.

The Acrobat X SDK is not yet available to the public, but should be released very soon. In the meantime if you can provide details of what you're having problems with, I'll see what we can replicate.

What about Acrobat 9 SDK 3D routines for producing (not just embedding) PRC models?
Do Acrobat X SDK retain them or they are to come as separate product from Tetra 4D or Techsoft 3D?

Hi mvid,

As part of the roadmap for V3.1 (due out in March) Tetra 4D will be releasing the 3D SDK that will allow similar routines that were previously available in the Acrobat 9 3D SDK. There has been some changes, but most developers will be able to migrate their codes in a day or less. Obviously we are waiting for the Acrobat SDK to be released, and then we will release shortly after.

Craig

As answered above, Adobe are still resposible for the JS beacause it is leveraged by the reader. However, if you are having trouble getting help, reach out to support@tetra4d and I will see if i can get your issue to the right people.

Craig

Hi - I'm new to this Forum and have a question. I'm using Deep Exploration 6.3 to animate models and then add callout tags. In DE, the tags read "right" even when I rotate the model. After making it into a PDF, the tags don't read right, in other words, they don't stay in the viewers plane.

Oh - I do hope someone understands this question because many people here at work are counting on me.

Thanks gang!

Stephanie

Callouts and other "PMI" annotations in Deep Exploration behave differently on the application viewport and in an exported PDF. On the viewport they can move to be camera-facing all the time (called "billboard" mode), but when exported to 3D PDF they become objects within the 3D world, as Acrobat doesn't support the idea of billboards. They will therefore rotate with everything else when the camera orbits, and there's nothing you can do about it - sorry!

Well, thank you for letting me know. Funny, when I made them from Acrobat 3d Version 8, they stayed in camera mode when put into a PDF. Since I no longer have Acrobat 3D V8, I have to make them in DE and that's where the problems seem to start.

Have a good day,

Stephanie

> and there's nothing you can do about itBillboards can be simulated by a 3D JavaScript that will do the necessary rotation -
there is a nice example at http://www.pdf3d.com/download_pdf.php?file=LabelExample.pdf .

But I do not know if it is easy to create a script for DE produced model.

Thanks, I'll check that out. I just found something out. In DE, after adding my part callouts, I saved it as a .U3d first before saving it to a PDF and now it works in the PDF. But I'm not so happy because I'm thinking I don't know what these programs are going to do next. I jsut can't count on them. Maybe the JS would be more consistant.

Thanks mvid

I checked out the sample - pretty nice what can be done.

gnomeisland,

Am I right in hearing that you have achieved this effect by exporting to U3D then embedding using Acrobat?

I am familiar with the DE Acrobat API for authoring pdf templates for use with DE. How do I embed a U3D in Acrobat? Do I still use the API?

Thanks in advance

Tim

Yes they can, however the PDF files exported from Deep Exploration already contain a whole bunch of encrypted JavaScript embedded into the 3D annotation, so modifying and adding your own function overrides is not an option. You will, as indicated above, have to forget DE's export to PDF option and export a U3D file for manual placement in Acrobat, using the Multimedia > 3D Tool. This means you don't have access to the animation effects DE can apply to PDFs, as they are all handled by that encrypted JavaScript.

Good Morning,

I tried it again and I CAN save to u3d in DE, and embed directly to Acrobat then save as PDF. I could have saved as PDF in DE but I don't care for their animation controls. I think this will work better for me. Showing the part callouts still looks funky though. I like the sample mvid showed using JavaScript. It looks real swift. I don't know if I have time for looking into that though.

thanks guys!

Thanks UVSAR,

I will experiment with placing 3D multimedia objects.

I however need those animation controls as they are an integral part of how we use 3D.pdf. Looks like I will continue to use dynamic metadata tags until RH make changes. There is a murmur that object hyperlinks are being developed for the DE workflow, which will be nice.

Peace

Yea, I realized the callout tags are only going to cooperate if I generate the pdf from DE. I guess that's the metadata tags at work.

Thanks for your help!

Dear Craig,

hope to see your 3D SDK in March 2011.
Is it going to include updated PRC spec?
If yes - are you (Tetra 4D and Tech Soft 3D) going to put that spec online (with free access).
If no - can you please elaborate on what you mean by "Commitment to Open Standards",
including "the continued development of PDF, PDF/E and PRC as open standards".

Sincerely, Michail

PS. The PRC spec in Acrobat X SDK does not contain visible improvements from Acrobat 9 SDK,
and has at least one significant loss (description of compressed curves).